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  #1  
Old 05-19-2007, 01:47 PM
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Is Guild Loyalty a Thing of the Past?
Ever since the end of the SWG era, I have had trouble holding on to guild members. Basically if the guild does not have the thing members are looking for at the exact moment they want it, they are gone. I asked Tarinth about it, and he said its because there are no rewards for loyalty. I don't know, were there ever a reward for loyalty outside of loyalty itself?

It occurs to me that guild loyalty was an artifact of the early days when the only people who played MMORPGs were of the "early adopter" mentality. Of course it probably seems worse to me as a Guild Wars guild leader. So much of the GW population is now under 16. I can't really expect loyalty from children. My old guildies have become doctors, dentists, lawyers and entrepreneurs with families -- they don't really have the time to be hardcore. Heck I don't have time to be hard core either...I only play between 3:00 and 6:00PM M-Th. The rest of the time I am creating stuff for GuildCafe.

Do any other guild leaders have thoughts on this matter?
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Old 05-19-2007, 02:33 PM
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Well, the mainstream market doesn't really fit into the old MMOG scene. I'd say it's not as much of a thing of the past as it is something that will be harder and harder to come by because of the small amount of players (Well, small compared to the players who don't.) who value loyalty and communities.

Alot of the people who play MMOGs after the WoW surge probably played single player games before, and in a SP game you can shut it off when you're bored, you don't need anyone else, and the amount of time you spend with it is limited. The SP mentality is carried over to MMOGs and the communities that form here, and that just doesn't work out for the guilds who seek loyal members.

To SP gamers a guild is usually temporary, atleast from my own experience. All my friends who used to play CS, WC3 and Singleplayer games and then went to WoW didn't look at the guilds as a bunch of friends, or even a community, but only the means to an end. To improve their own characters.
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Old 05-19-2007, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational View Post
To SP gamers a guild is usually temporary, atleast from my own experience. All my friends who used to play CS, WC3 and Singleplayer games and then went to WoW didn't look at the guilds as a bunch of friends, or even a community, but only the means to an end. To improve their own characters.
This is pretty much what I am finding too. My guild experiences with Section One are precious to me. I'd like to have that kind of experience again. I keep trying to create it. I have varied my management style this way and that. People who have never been part of an awesome guild, just don't know what they are missing.
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Old 05-19-2007, 06:45 PM
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I think Mavic may be right... I still have a tight-knit, very loyal and very active guild... but this is still primarily a swg guild. We developed strong loyalty to each other over time, a desire to maintain a good reputation on our server in a game where allies and enemies communicate openly in and out of game... so reputation really defines your guild... plus the struggles we went through and are still going through. Sudden trajic loss of guildmates in real life, Player cities built and lost but then regained through coordinated effort, Server-wide events that improved the game for our community, great visionary leaders who shaped the server and made us truly believe in what we were capable of. My loyalty to them remains even though i'm persuing rl goals now myself... I think just having a core group who are still active and still believe in this guild and in each other is perpetuating itself, keeping us in the guild and games we play (mostly swg and VG now), and it's been contagious enough so that new members who join over time become just as vital to carrying it on.

For my own part in it I just never stop believing in them... I've been their elected leader 3 times in the past and I think the best way I had of inspiring loyalty was by showing confidence in the greatest potential of the people around me. I think trusting in the best about people brings out their best, inspiring them to have greater self-confidence, and become more willing to take the initiative to change things for the better. I've seen the opposite happen alot too though... where someone is treated with a lack of confidence and it brings out the worst in them.

Also... just as belief in a single person's potential can inspire an individual... I think it's even more powerful when directed at a larger group of people, like a guild. People want to live up to that, are proud to be a part of it, and the guild starts to mean something great to them just because they believe it does, so they keep making it true.

The fact that we elect our leadership makes for an interesting dynamic too, I think it helps members to feel loyal knowing they have a say in how this guild is run and that any one of them has the potential to be a leader over any aspect of the guild if they show their guildmates they can do a good job at it. Plus guild leaders tend to get burned out in a hurry so it's nice to relieve them. Much of my faith in this guild is confirmed every time I see what excellent choices they make for themselves at each election, so I'm confident they'll stay in good hands long term.
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  #6  
Old 05-19-2007, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavic View Post
I think that the current crop of games don't have the mechanics that encourage loyalty. It's all about phat shiney loot.

I know that most of my guildies in SWG stayed tight because we hated our enemies, and wanted to clone camp them till they logged out.

We had a common goal that wasn't selfish, but shared.

Like you Roxxy I value my memories with FIGHT, and RIVAL
Yeah if you somehow managed to clone camp a One, it was prolly worth hanging out and enjoying We've all left SWG though. Maybe you, Zel and Tarinth are right though and I am banging my head against a wall in Guild Wars. I think the opportunity is there though. My guild, Band, is rank 700+ right now...I just keep imagining how awesome it will be to fight our way down to top 20 and stay there...
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Old 05-19-2007, 07:09 PM
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wow see now I'm scared if we ever all primarily leave SWG. That's still our anchor game and most new members come to us through it.. we're still getting alot of like minded people.. but admittedly mostly refugees from guilds that aren't still in swg or servers that are less populated now. So i'd like to tell you this kind of loyalty is still alive and well but you're making me think we're like an antique now that just happens to still be in its original package and will lose value if removed from its box. =P
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Old 05-19-2007, 08:55 PM
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Roxianna based upon your original post it seems like you already have the answer....but that the answer itself sucks. With each passing day WoW affects our gaming experience more and more. Battle.net was a prophetic precursor to the mentality that WoW would usher in among gamers. The same people who will give the host 30 second or less to get the game started in a situation like this.

Host: Hey guys
Player 1: GO
Player 2:GO
Player 2:GO
Player 2:GO
Player 2:GO
Player 2:GO GOGOGOGOGOGOG!!!!1
Player 1: NUB HOST
Player 2: GO FAG!!

Now you have WoW, a blizzard game based entirely upon improving your own avatar with goodies that can only be acquired through a group effort. So these self motivated and impatient people are spreading throughout the MMOG community and looking for any guild that will serve their needs. The guild needs the players too, so they feel like they are doing YOU a favor as guild leader. This wasnt the case in the past. Loyalty has to be motivated by the status quo and it isn't. The only way you will have loyalty is if the gamer needs the guild far more than the reciprocal is true.

The hardcore are dying out right now. We are literally going extinct because there aren't any games being made for us whatsoever.
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  #9  
Old 05-19-2007, 08:57 PM
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Yea Zel....you say that you haven't been having any trouble but you are saying you've consistently been in one game. That is the easiest way to keep your membership active and refresh it with people that are obviously interested in playing the game. Wait until you find your guild floating without a game though, and the whole ballgame changes very quickly.
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Old 05-19-2007, 09:28 PM
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/nod. I can certainly see how a new game can change everything. I've been harping on about reputation and that's something you can't take with you. In a new game every guild is rolling the dice all over again on becoming a success and having to rebuild their reputation from scratch.

but is it too misguided to be hopeful that for the remaining 'hardcore gamers', a community site like guildcafe that spans multiple games, networks the people who know and remember each other, could help to provide the missing community continuity that guilds face between games? And maybe help us keep some of what was accomplished in previous games; reputation-wise, a little better?

(edit: also keeping a strong player base in SWG of all games is NOT easy, lol. It's like we've already all moved to a different game twice now =P)
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