More Vista Trouble -- LOTRO and .NET

Roxianna · #1 04-21-2007, 12:42 PM

Of course I still can't run WoW or Ventrilo as reported in another post. LOTRO is insisting on trying to install DirectX 9, when I am on DirectX 10. It also wants to install some 1.4 version of .Net when of course .net is already built into my operating system.

Any advice?

Here is some system info I thought might be helpful:

Code:

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 4/4/2007, 06:26:12
       Machine name: PWNTOWN
   Operating System: Windows Vista™ Ultimate (6.0, Build 6000) (6000.vista_rtm.061101-2205)
           Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: System manufacturer
       System Model: System Product Name
               BIOS: Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
          Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU          6600  @ 2.40GHz (2 CPUs), ~2.4GHz
             Memory: 2046MB RAM
          Page File: 653MB used, 3659MB available
        Windows Dir: C:\Windows
    DirectX Version: DirectX 10
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
     DxDiag Version: 6.00.6000.16386 32bit Unicode

--------------------
DirectX Debug Levels
--------------------
Direct3D:    0/4 (retail)
DirectDraw:  0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (retail)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (retail)
DirectPlay:  0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow:  0/6 (retail)

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
        Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GT
     Manufacturer: NVIDIA
        Chip type: GeForce 7950 GT
         DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
   Display Memory: 776 MB
 Dedicated Memory: 504 MB
    Shared Memory: 271 MB
     Current Mode: 1600 x 1200 (32 bit) (60Hz)
          Monitor: Generic PnP Monitor
      Driver Name: nvd3dum.dll
   Driver Version: 7.15.0010.9746 (English)
      DDI Version: 9Ex
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
 Driver Date/Size: 12/7/2006 21:25:00, 3055616 bytes

---------------------
Sound Capture Devices
---------------------
            Description: Microphone (Realtek High Definition Audio)
  Default Sound Capture: Yes
  Default Voice Capture: Yes
            Driver Name: RTKVHDA.sys
         Driver Version: 6.00.0001.5334 (English)
      Driver Attributes: Final Retail
          Date and Size: 12/1/2006 14:38:58, 1655464 bytes
              Cap Flags: 0x1
           Format Flags: 0xFFFFF

be0wulfe · #2 04-21-2007, 02:44 PM

Does this link help in anyway?

http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2007/04/...sta-vista.html

http://www.electricsistahood.com/rev...otro-beta.html

Might it be some permisson issue where you - or the install - isn't running in admin mode ... ?

Tarinth · #3 04-21-2007, 02:48 PM

Part of the problemis that LOTRO requires .NET 1.1.

Intuitively, you'd think that if you have higher versions of .NET (like 2.0 and the Vista default installation) you'd be all set. But that isn't the case. You actually need to download the old .NET 1.1 stuff from Microsoft, install it, and then install the service pack. This is because NET 1.x was not designed to be forward-compatible with subsequent editions of .NET.

You can get .NET 1.1 here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en

And the service pack here:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en

To make things worse, a certain number of users who install .NET 1.1 will have the installer crash on them during the execution of RegSvcs.exe. If you are one of these unfortunate people, there is a complex but functional workaround that has been documented in Aaron Stebner's weblog: http://blogs.msdn.com/astebner/archi...17/600677.aspx

His instructions are written for XP, but the Vista process is similar: instead of opening "My Computer," just choose Computer from the Start menu, then click System and then things are fairly similar from there.

be0wulfe · #4 04-21-2007, 03:06 PM

I'll admit to not being up to speed on all thing technical but I thought there was the 1.1 framework and the 2.0 framework (and of course 3.0) and that 1.4 version was what lead me to believe that maybe the installer wasn't getting the right version info from Vista.

Regardless, if the 1.1 installer is crashing on some Vista installs ... ouch.

Is it completely unrealistic to brainwipe that box and install XP ... ? OR setup a dual boot into XP for gaming ... might cause a lot less angina, gosh knows I would be getting heart burn over this.

Kamujin · #5 04-21-2007, 05:24 PM

There is no 1.4 version of .NET.

Also, the 3.0 version is actually .NET 2.0 with enhancements. There is no 3.0 runtime, etc.

These are not Vista issues. I am sorry your having these problems, but I think its wrong to blame them on Vista when XP is subject to the same potential problems.

That being said, there is nothing inherently "bad" about having the .NET 1.1 and 2.0 frameworks installed at the same time. Its analogous to having more then 1 Java Virtual Machine installed.

Kamujin · #6 04-21-2007, 05:31 PM

For non-Vista aware applications and many games, I would recommend running them as Administrator.

This can be done by right clicking the icon and choosing "Run as Administrator". This can also be set by going to the compatability mode tab of the properties dialog and checking "Run as Administrator".

WoW runs fine on Vista, I play it all the time. There is some dumb router issue with WoW, that I've started having again. It happens on my MacBook as well as my Vista box. I work-around it by setting up a VPN tunnel to my office's lan (we have massive pipes there, so there is minimal performance impact). When I get around to fixing the router again, I will let you know what I did.

Roxianna · #7 04-21-2007, 09:03 PM

Even after going through hours of research and hell to get the 1.1 .net framework running, LOTRO no go. I was able to install it on my Professional XP 64 system though.

I do think this is totally Microsoft's problem. They come out with this whole 1.x .Net thing and get people to develop products that use it. Then change their minds, come up with a whole new 2.x .Net thing that is not backwards compatible. Then put that in Windows Vista to try and force developers to switch so their customers won't have to go thru the kind of BS that I am with this LOTRO install. LOTRO's installer bravely tries to deal with all this, but apparently a lot of people still have problems.

In this case Microsoft is definitely screwing companyies like Turbine. Meanwhile I have a "gaming" PC that won't play the major games.

On another note, I don't even know what a freaking VPN tunnel is and I don't believe I should have to to play Wow.

Kamujin · #8 04-21-2007, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxianna

Even after going through hours of research and hell to get the 1.1 .net framework running, LOTRO no go. I was able to install it on my Professional XP 64 system though.

I do think this is totally Microsoft's problem. They come out with this whole 1.x .Net thing and get people to develop products that use it. Then change their minds, come up with a whole new 2.x .Net thing that is not backwards compatible. Then put that in Windows Vista to try and force developers to switch so their customers won't have to go thru the kind of BS that I am with this LOTRO install. LOTRO's installer bravely tries to deal with all this, but apparently a lot of people still have problems.

In this case Microsoft is definitely screwing companyies like Turbine. Meanwhile I have a "gaming" PC that won't play the major games.

On another note, I don't even know what a freaking VPN tunnel is and I don't believe I should have to to play Wow.

I have to say that this doesn't even remotely resemble reality.

.NET 2.0 is backward compatible. The only reason that you would need .NET 1.1 to run an assembly is that it was specifically targeted to that version of .NET. Most application don't do this, but it was a legal option. Again, this is analogous to different versions of a Java VM.

.NET 2.0 added some very exciting features to .NET such as generics and anonymous delegates. These additions have allowed developers to build .NET applications that have performance equal to C/C++ applications.

If you consisider that it took 5 significant revisions of Java to get to a similiar level of efficiency, .NET did it in 3.

I have to admit, you seem to be a magnet for problems. We've tested XP 64 and it was no better/worse then Vista 64 for compatability. Both OS's still have limited driver support. Since Vista x64's has a much faster networking stack, we've already migrated all of those machines.

Kamujin · #9 04-21-2007, 10:41 PM

Honestly, I would recomend that you use a 32bit version of your favorite OS. While the 64bit versions do have more registers, there is performance hit for running 32bit apps in compatability mode. This makes it roughly a wash. Since your interested in game performance, I don't think the extra hassles of a 64bit OS are worth the effort.

I think you will find that 32bit Vista is very stable. If your not interested in that then 32bit XP.

Kamujin · #10 04-21-2007, 10:49 PM

BTW, I know this is going to sound stupid and I am not really sure why it worked, but I tinkered with my router to get WoW working without the VPN tunnel.

Here are the setting that I have to turn on to get it to work on MY router.

Drop fragmented IP packets
Block TCP flood
Block UDP flood
Enable DNS proxy
Enable Stealth Mode