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  #21  
Old 08-06-2007, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorbis View Post
While Blizzard is owned by a French company I think one of Blizzards great strengths is that they do not bow to publisher pressure and instead concentrate on great games.

You can describe the reason for Blizzards success in one word: "polish".
Oh come on, make up your mind here: First you say they're French, then you say they're Polish.

Hee hee!

Wait! No! Stop! Not the whip again! I'll be good! I promise! Look, I have something relevant to say, really!

Anyway, I agree with MrSilver's analysis. Instanced PvP isn't evil, but the way Bliz did it really messes with the rest of the game.

(What do you mean "not good enough". Nooooo!)
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  #22  
Old 08-10-2007, 08:18 AM
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I donīt like them, they give free WoW expansions to Chinese players.
The rest has to pay.
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  #23  
Old 08-10-2007, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Sven788 View Post
I donīt like them, they give free WoW expansions to Chinese players.
The rest has to pay.
This is down to regional differences and not something Blizzard can force. Koreans got to keep their beta characters for release.
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  #24  
Old 08-19-2007, 10:13 PM
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i laugh at myself for posting about this.

Bliz had one thing right: the importance of customer loyalty. This is why I am so amazed they did what they did to WoW. I don't even know if what they did was economically unsound, given that altho WoW US/EU numbers are staggering they are still relatively stable, and who knows what is happening in WoW China now that the expansion is finally being released.

But they have lost my loyalty. Over two years of subscription fees on top of the cost of the game and the expansion, and I was playing for about... 6 + 3 + 2 months out that time? Ironically it was in WoW that I realized how powerful an effect on motivation betrayal can have (being ganked for no reason by your own faction in STV arena hurts..). I do not want to buy another Blizzard game ever again.

Unless someone important to me wants me to, of course... ~.~
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  #25  
Old 08-19-2007, 10:50 PM
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Starcraft MMO = Win. Lets make that happen blizzard. Everyone will hop on that bandwagon.
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  #26  
Old 08-19-2007, 10:59 PM
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**Warning: Rant incoming**

Disappointing your customers by not continuing a franchise because you can't commit to the quality is one thing. Betraying your customers by changing the game they are playing (yeah yeah, ESRB warning, I know) is something else.

Want to know what happened to WoW? PvE raids, plain and simple. They ARE the root cause for everything that went wrong in WoW, because they satisfy players who can be made happy as long as they are more powerful than and have accomplished more than the rest of the players in the game, players who think, basically, that the ends justify the tedium of getting there, that an arbitrary achievement is worthwhile as a selfish motive, no matter what impact their actions have on the other players who play the game. That these players existed, and that Bliz focused their content and design efforts around them, formed a self-reinforcing feedback loop that allowed Bliz to think they could give less and less importance to the casual, fun-seeking players who formed the real basis for the shockingly overwhelming success of the game.

Bliz thought they could have it all, that they could appease the casual players with the superb design and content of the 1-60 game, while also appeasing the hardcore PvEers with the planned, multiple tiers of raid dungeons. The PvPers of course were an afterthought... efforts being made to accomodate them in the changing landscape of the game, yet nothing that would detract from the "real" content focus of PvE raiding. This is not an impossible task... but what they ended up doing for PvPers caused more harm than good, because the WoW devs simply do not understand PvP and what makes it fun, neither in the tactical specifics nor in the general sense. It's both sad and infuriating. =)

So why instanced and farmed BGs and everything else that killed of the fun of PvP in WoW? The devs were simply trying to compensate for the effects of their PvE gear incentives on the complexities of PvP they didn't understand. It was their way of trying to keep PvP fun... and while it may have been better than nothing at all, it was still so much worse than what it could have been if they weren't so incompetent about PvP, or even if they didn't do to PvE what they did with the raid game.


This is getting a bit long, so I will try to speed things up a bit. The logic went like this:

"We have introduced zomg Uber drops from Ragnaros and things will only get better from there." (this is where the game really died, altho it took a long time for it to show, because everything else followed logically from there...)

"PvPers will get upset if they have to PvE to compete in PvP." (an admirable sentiment, right..? But they were only compensating for problems THEY themselves had introduced.)

"PvPers must be forced to compete in some way to earn their epics, so the game does not devolve into triviality." (because after all, PvEers couldn't be relied on to raid for fun, but only because of the gear...)

"Pvpers must be able to earn loot as good as what can be obtained from the highest levels of PvE."

This is what killed world PvP! and it only follows logically from everything else... battlegrounds followed logically from the fundamentally imbalanced faction populations, but it was the incentives in PvP, incentives which had suddenly became essential for future competition and ability to have fun, that killed off the fun in PvP. Because the most fun thing about PvP was that it was not required, that you were only doing it for fun. Blizzard redefined the environment so that the only way to have "fun" was to compete in bloodthirsty and endlessly rewinded battles against the same opponents in the same few zones. The design of the honor system, originally idealistic but compromised for the sake of whiners, only exacerbated the problem, but the fundamental issue was still the necessity of the honor rewards and the lack of achievement outside of the narrow and restrictive idea of "better gear".


So that's what Blizzard did wrong.. and it's still what's wrong. Is it impossible to fix? NO!!! At least I don't think it is, I wouldn't have bumped certain ideas for a straight month if I hadn't thought they were sound. Bliz is just too incompetent, doesn't understand PvP, and doesn't care to fix it anyway when all they are interested in is creating new raid content for new expansions, because with the core of hardcore raiders and the cloud of casuals who aren't offended enough to quit and the unknown and monstrous shadow of WoW China's subscriptions, Bliz has no real incentive to care if all their most hardcore PvPers quit for other games..

That is why I quit WoW.
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  #27  
Old 08-25-2007, 06:02 AM
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I think blizzard is an awesome company. They never release a game untill it is very polished. BattleNet is probably the best matchmaking service an RTS game has ever seen.

Yeah they've done alot of good for the RTS genre. Also, its interesting to note that while they're games never have top-knotch graphics at the time of release, they stand up very well over time due to the cartoony art style.

Sure, so they may be getting carried away with milking the WoW money cow. The fact of the matter is though, they still update their products regularly, and their work is still phenomenal. I understand all the hate directed at them, but WoW has contributed to the gaming industry. They don't have 9 million subscribers as a result of being lazy. Their work is all of very high quality, and as a result, atleast developers might realise that quality is important.

But thats just my $0.02
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  #28  
Old 08-25-2007, 06:34 AM
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>Their work is all of very high quality, and as a result, atleast developers might realise that quality is important.

Good point.

Not that developers wouldn't have wanted to put high-quality games out there before, but... as Paul Barnett pointed out in his Face the Nation interview, WoW has set the bar high so that new MMOs are required to approach the same level of quality to even have a chance.

Some might argue that the size required for projects to reach economy of scale to achieve this quality hurts the niche market aspirant... but one of the reasons WoW did become so popular, and why it's so fun, is because it attracted such a diverse group of players. If other MMOs are "forced" to market their product to a similarly diverse market segment, I think we all benefit.

It doesn't really seem like it's what's happening... the highly anticipated MMOs are mostly about PvP because it's what WoW now lacks... but in the future at least, we should see more widely targetted MMOs I think.
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  #29  
Old 08-25-2007, 02:23 PM
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Well many developers these days are pressured into releasing their products early. The way I see it, the success of quality games such as world of warcraft, or bioshock might one day help to rid the industry of the whole "who cares about those 1600 bugs, lets get this money tree out there!" idea..

On the other hand, it also means that indie games become unnoticed, as they don't have the money to support great graphics, which really is one of the biggest pull factors that a game has.. Well, at first anyway..
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  #30  
Old 08-25-2007, 08:29 PM
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So you're arguing against yourself now? =p

The better indie games should be able to find a way to get funding... I don't really know much about how that works. But of course, the flipside to WoW's driving up the standard with its quality is that it's also shown how large the market is for MMOs that do have that standard of quality..
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