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  #11  
Old 12-09-2008, 03:47 AM
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There is evidently quite a lot about this game that is flying over me, because that website isn't making a lot of sense.

It mentioned backwards-compatibility with other rulebooks. I didn't realize that rulebooks could be used in conjunction or anything like that... could someone explain that?

Also: I noticed they have a bestiary. I thought the point of games like this was that you made everything up? I didn't think there were set rules like that, I thought you just made up any old creature to fight.
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  #12  
Old 12-09-2008, 04:57 AM
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Pathfinder was made to be compatible with D&D 3.5. Basically, it's for the people who weren't quite happy with D&D 3.5 but were also not pleased with the idea of updating the D&D 4.0. That's what the compatibility is speaking about.

Well, you certainly can make creatures up! And, if you have a group of experienced players, it's actually better that you do make them up because it means that they can't anticipate what they need to do to defeat them. But, for beginning players, I recommend going by the book until you have the hang of what you are doing. Think of the rules more as "guidelines" than anything else that are there to help you get a grasp of what you are doing. Once you understand what all the statistics that surround the creature mean, then you can make something up on your own that your group can fight.

But, yes...there are rules to these things. You pretty much have to have at least some skeleton of a rules system (it doesn't have to be a terribly complex system) or else you take away the fairness of the game. If there were not rules saying that, for example, "you have to roll a score of X to be able to do Y" then everything falls to the DM's judgment, which can feel terribly unfair. If you have rules that in certain situations, certain things apply then everyone at the table knows that if bad things happen to their character...well...it's just bad luck, really.

And, you do make up the story itself! Everything in your world - the people, the towns, the plots - all of those spring from your imagination. All of the history and intrigues, everything that involves the story itself will come from you and the players. But, you need the rules purely for mechanics - running the battles, determining if a player is successful using a skill, knowing if a spells casting is successful, etc.

Edit: Just thought I would mention that there are freeform, play-by-post games out there that are pretty much rules-free and are essentially group storytelling projects. I'm not sure if a rules-free tabletop system exists. I know there are rules-lite systems, and diceless systems but...I'm not sure about a purely collaborative storytelling kind. Maybe someone else knows?
Last edited by arislyn : 12-09-2008 at 05:12 AM.
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  #13  
Old 12-10-2008, 01:41 AM
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I knew that there was rules, like to keep people from cheating like "LOLXORZ I USE MY NUKE AND BLOW EVERYONE UP"

But what I meant was that when I saw that bestiary, I thought it meant that there was some kind of set universe, with set creatures and people and stuff like that. That's what the bestiary kind of signalled to me, and I knew that that wasn't right.

And maybe I should restate my first question, because I'm not sure if I got the point across.

What I'm saying is, I didn't know that you could, like, use multiple rulebooks. I mean, how can you mix them together? What if both rulebooks have a rule about the same thing, but are different? How does that work?
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  #14  
Old 12-10-2008, 02:12 AM
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Ah! Gotcha. Sorry that I misunderstood.

Okay, you can't mix rulebooks from different systems, like D&D and GURPs, for instance. They simply aren't compatible because they use radically different rule sets. However, Pathfinder, is for all intents and purposes, D&D 3.75. They took the ruleset from D&D 3.5 and modified it somewhat without making it completely different. Most of the mechanics are the same with the big changes being made to class features.

If there are two rules in the books that are different, that's where you just choose which one you like the best and use it. Easy-peasy. The thing to remember is to just be consistent when you are playing and always use the rule you chose. Don't switch back and forth. That can make for unhappy players.

There are set universes that you can use. The Forgotten Realms campaign setting is probably one of the most famous. Then, you have Dragonlance, Planescape, Kara-tur...there are all kinds of world already created so that you don't have to come up with everything on your own. If you want to create your world from scratch, that's perfectly fine! You don't have to use any of the settings. Or, you can just cherry-pick what you like from the setting and make up the rest. It's up to you.
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Old 12-11-2008, 12:33 AM
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So does Pathfinder have its own rulebook? Or does it just have some additions that you can use in conjunction with your 3.5 rulebooks?

Anyway, here's the situation: I've got two of my friends interested, and we want to try it out sometime. I think we're just gonna do DnD, and not some other RPG, for the sake of simplicity and ease of acquiring the materials. And another question: D&D, or AD&D? Which is better for beginners? Which is more fun? What are the pros and cons of each?

I think I'm gonna buy some dice off of here.

EDIT: After seeing that video about Zocchi and his dice, I think I may go for these instead.

But my problem is rulebooks. There is a veritable list here. Which one is the right one? Or are none of them just a basic rulebook?

I liked the look of this one, but it's D&D and not AD&D. So if you guys suggest we go for Classic D&D, then I'll probably get that. But otherwise, what should I do?

Or is there some better resource elsewhere on the website that I've totally missed?

EDIT: I just found the actual DnD website, with the three core rulebooks that it says are required to play the game.

But from the descriptions, it seems like the DM Guide and the Monster Manual aren't required at all. All they seem to be are resource lists: premade monsters and NPCs and areas that you CAN use if you want to. I understand that creating good monsters would be hard, but do I really need a book to make towns and NPCs? I think it would be more fun to make it all up myself. So do the DM Guide and the Monster Manual actually have any value beyond just giving you some resources that you can use in your game if you don't want to make it up yourself? Do I actually have to spend $150 just on books for the game?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...dacc/217367200
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...dacc/217507200
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...dacc/217207200
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Last edited by BaboonOfTheYard : 12-11-2008 at 01:26 AM.
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  #16  
Old 12-11-2008, 02:28 AM
arislyn arislyn is offline
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Pathfinder has it's own book which is completely free to download. That's why I directed you there, first. I figured it was a good, free resource to look at. If you go back to the Pathfinder link I gave you, you'll see a link to download the beta of the book. You'll need to create an account and "buy" it (even though it's free).

D'oh! Sorry to be brief. I have to help my husband with groceries. I'll get back with you in a bit.
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  #17  
Old 12-11-2008, 02:48 AM
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I hadn't noticed that it was free. I saw that the other two books cost money and didn't notice the "FREE" next to the first one. Sorry!

But WOW, this thing is LONG! I dunno how we're going to use it, because printing that out is just asking for printer malfunction.

Not to mention wasting a trees-worth of paper.

Well, that basically answers almost every question I asked in the last post. Thanks!
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  #18  
Old 12-11-2008, 02:05 PM
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Baboon the golden rule of table top roleplaying is simple the rules are there to give order, but you can manipulate them and fix them how you like. The world is set up, but as a storyteller, dungeon master, game master etc, you have the ability to change what you want or create soemthing completely new.

An example would be, back in the 90's I created a AD&D campaign (TSR books) where I took the paladins class and re-built it to fit into a darker aspect called Dark Paladins (Based on Jedi and Sith), all the powers that 'good' paladins had I manipulated and converted to a darker style, I took all the aspects of the 'good' paladins and converted it to make my evil ones.

Basically bending the rules and changing things up a little bit. My suggestion if you want to learn about rps before you buy them would be to look around a little bit, learn the mechanics decide what system you like better and than take that one as your chosen. Another good way to find out about the different worlds would be to purchase the novels for the different worlds, they can help you understand alot of the non-mechanical stuff surrounding the worlds.

Another thing to look into would be a table top called 'AMBER' it is a diceless roleplaying game and allows both players and storytellers to manipulate every aspect of the world they are given. You could also check out amazon of ebay for single player games, these are a series of books, I can't remember the authors name, but it is a campaign in a novel where you play a character as you read, you write stats on paper and as you read the novel you have decissions to make. These are fun and you can learn alot.

I know this is off the topic of what you asked, but it just came to me and the more advice and help can only help out a little...Lol...
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  #19  
Old 12-11-2008, 03:33 PM
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Thing about RPG's is you can find some that are barebones structures for you to create your own stuff, and then there's games like D&D that don't necessarily have a specific "setting" but they provide uber amounts of details and rules and even provide a huge beastiary that covers the caveats of their genre and style to ease up the Game Master's time.

It sounds like you're wanting a game that:
->Has all the rules to keep players in line, but can be tailored easily to whatever game you want to run

->Rules that are also easy to figure out and coherent.

->Free or low cost, because who the heck has the budget these days anyways to build an entire library?

->Short and sweet. Enough pages to justify printing out.

I just happen to know a few (and free!) gaming documents that are short and sweet to the point. If you're feeling up to building your own settings and detailing any opposition for your players to face, these might serve well.

I'm unfortunately late for work, but, I'll at least give you one of my favorites and come back through out the day with more links:

The Window
http://www.mimgames.com/window/
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  #20  
Old 12-12-2008, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revlazaro View Post
Thanks for that, but that doesn't really seem like the kind of RPG that I'd want. It says it avoids the number-crunching and raw combat kind of thing, which is kind of what I like. I'm a math nerd. Do you have any other suggestions?

EDIT: Whilst searching, I found this website: http://www.homebrew.net/games/

On that list, though I've only picked a few, the one I like the look of best is this one. Any suggestions or comments for me?
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Last edited by BaboonOfTheYard : 12-12-2008 at 01:11 AM.
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