The Price Of Gas: Blessing In Disguise?

[tekhedd]

Originally Posted by Vain

I thought it was interesting (and wrong) that presidential candidates are suggesting a "windfall tax" on oil companies, due to the price of oil going up (which it is doing for many reasons, including increased demand from China, and instability in the middle east).

Now if it can be proven that the oil companies are illegally collaborating and price fixing, then prosecute on that front by all means, but deciding to swoop in to an industry and start confiscating profits just because it's unpopular, is populism at its worst.

It's also the way taxation has always worked since the beginning of time. "Oh, you're making money? OK, we want a piece of that." Hey, if the government does it, it's not piracy.

[tekhedd]

I generally think all the time people spend driving is sad and humorous. But... the various attitudes towards "alternative" energy sources scare me.

Originally Posted by Jamion

As for transportation, cars like the Clarity are most likely our future, I plan to buy one soon after they become available in mass quantity.

Hydrogen cars are really electric cars using Hydrogen as the storage medium. That makes them coal burning cars in just about every country. Not a problem, because coal plants are very efficient and clean, but...

Of course the best options would be solar or wind power. Germany is leading the way with having 20%

Which is excellent. And not exactly easy.

Nuclear power plants are non-polluting as well,

Arguable. While "green" proponents are currently pushing nuclear power, the fact remains that someday the waste will be a problem for somebody. Obviously, we'll all be dead by then so who gives a ----, right? (The psychological technique to use when facing this problem is "displacement". Ignore the problem and it goes away, instead get angry at the person who suggested there is a problem.)

Yet fear of nuclear waste and nuclear explosion (trinoble) keep these clean forms of energy production from being built.

I wouldn't call it fear, exactly. Tell you what, we'll build the power plant behind your house and store the waste in your closet.

Discussion club question: is nuclear energy a renewable resource? Why or why not?

Don't get me wrong, Nuclear is our only choice considering the ongoing power demands and limited amount of coal in the world. It just isn't pretty like you've just described it to be.

As far as bicycles go Giant is the largest manufacturer in the world, and probably one of the best in quality ---> http://www.giant-bicycles.com/

I ride a Kona.

[Sensational]

Originally Posted by tekhedd

Arguable. While "green" proponents are currently pushing nuclear power, the fact remains that someday the waste will be a problem for somebody. Obviously, we'll all be dead by then so who gives a ----, right? (The psychological technique to use when facing this problem is "displacement". Ignore the problem and it goes away, instead get angry at the person who suggested there is a problem.)
I wouldn't call it fear, exactly. Tell you what, we'll build the power plant behind your house and store the waste in your closet.

With enough money put into nuclear power research, the amount of waste produced would be so small that it wouldn't matter. It pretty much is already. Ofcourse, that money won't come from anywhere because of politics, greed and selfishness. And I'm not trying to put myself on a pedestal here or anything, I wouldn't want a power plant in my back yard either. That's humans for you.

Originally Posted by tekhedd

Discussion club question: is nuclear energy a renewable resource? Why or why not?

Depends on the type, fuels such as coal and oil are used, uranium and plutonium is used, and some might be using thorium in the future. Fusion, which is the most likely future if you ask me, also uses natural resources. So no, nuclear power as it is, is not renewable. Perhaps the resources are produced naturally at higher rates than we would be using them today, but our population is growing quickly. The need for energy is growing quickly, anything that uses up natural resources won't be renewable in the future. Parasites can only live as long as their host does. A million years? That is nothing in the time span of the universe.

Humanity's goal should be to harness the energy that the sun gives us each day, anything more than that and it's not sustainable in the long term. But again, the money for that won't come from anywhere, we're not insects, we don't share a hive mind, we don't share the common goal of keeping our species alive and on top. That's why I'm all for a global totalitarian police state based on biology. That state would do anything to keep itself alive (Evolution gogo), and with complete control over the human species it could potentially do very well.

[Jamion]

Originally Posted by tekhedd

Hydrogen cars are really electric cars using Hydrogen as the storage medium. That makes them coal burning cars in just about every country. Not a problem, because coal plants are very efficient and clean, but...

Yes I know I was at the international auto show, in Detroit, when they introduced the technology originally. They work like a train locomotive. Train locomotives (modern) use diesel to generate electricity, then the electricity drives the train. The fuel cell work similarly. Hydrogen, from tanks, is run along one electric plate while oxygen is run along another. The two try to combine into water and the plates prevent them from doing this. Instead they share a ton electrons which are now collected by a membrane. The electron are of course electricity which goes to the electric engine. Which like the ones you assembled in a middle school lab are copper coils, only massive, that use electro-magnetic plates to spin it. One of the great things about hydrogen fuel cell over hybrids like the Prius is the fact that they don't really store energy in the same way with nickel based alloy batteries, that destroy the environment, google an aerial picture of Sudbury mining plant in Ontario its scary. It's a dead zone that NASA uses to test how stuff would work on alien planets.


The green are ponds, not life.

I should note that there is one hydrogen car that is not fuel cell based in development from Ford (Mazda). It is instead a rotary engine that uses hydrogen internal combustion, much like current cars except from hydrogen gas.

Originally Posted by tekhedd

Arguable. While "green" proponents are currently pushing nuclear power, the fact remains that someday the waste will be a problem for somebody. Obviously, we'll all be dead by then so who gives a ----, right?

If you read what I actually wrote instead of cutting up you'll realize that yea if we use nuclear for 10,000yrs we might have enough waste to have mutant children, but in the current times it the best choice for clean energy as the amount of nuclear waste is very very very small. Plus Nuclear energy is constantly being improved with concepts of fission. No it's not a permanent solution, but no source of energy ever is. "everything changes, even change changes" we will develop cleaner energy forms, create polymers that absorb multi-spectrum from solar rays to generate power, we will harness advanced forms of fission and create new more powerful isotopes. We are always looking for new, better forms of energy. Nuclear is more of an immediate solution to a problem and it's extremely clean and efficient compared to what we are using NOW.

As far as building one in my back yard I live near Davis-besse so I already have one in my back yard and the waste transfer place is not far from my house :P

Originally Posted by tekhedd

I wouldn't call it fear, exactly. Tell you what, we'll build the power plant behind your house and store the waste in your closet.

..I..

Addition:
As far coal burning goes. More than 70% of the US energy comes from coal. Hydrogen fuel cells get energy from coal how? They don't connect to the power grid that has this 70% coal. They run independent using hydrogen, oxygen, and some synthetic materials. Oh I know the cars were built in a plant that probably uses coal in some form...no it was made in Japan which uses fewer coal burning plants then the US (in fact 30% of Japan's energy comes from Nuclear, and they are planning on having 60% of their energy come from Nuclear by 2050.... how the **** does it use coal again?

[tekhedd]

Originally Posted by Jamion

Y
If you read what I actually wrote instead of cutting up

I'll admit I skimmed over that part. But, then, I skim over most of your posts.

...they independent using hydrogen, oxygen...

Where does the hydrogen come from again? I forget.

[Sensational]

Originally Posted by tekhedd

I'll admit I skimmed over that part. But, then, I skim over most of your posts.

Internet "Ouch".

[Jamion]

Wow tekhedd resulting to personal insult because you can't make a point, but for you...Where Hydrogen comes From!

Hydrogen is the chemical element 1 represented on the periodic table. Hydrogen is the lightest element with an atomic weight of 1.00794 amu. Hydrogen is also the most abundant resource in the universe. 75% of the universe's elemental mass is estimated to be hydrogen. Most stars are hydrogen in it's plasma form. The ground state energy level of the electron in a hydrogen atom is −13.6 eV, which is equivalent to an ultraviolet photon of roughly 92 nm. Hydrogen bonds with most other elements to form compounds in it's H2 form. Thus it exists in the just about everything, including the human body. Hydrogen has three naturally occuring isotopes: 1H, 2H, 3H; and unstable form such as 4H and 7H have been generated in labs. Usually to farm it as pure hydrogen comes from a reactive process with Zinc. Aluminum can also produce hydrogen when combined with certain acids and certain bases. Electrolosys is one of the favorite process to extracting hydrogen from water by use low voltage electricity to seperate oxygen and hydrogen (water is H2O btw). An outdated process of harvesting hydrogen is from hydrocarbons ususally through steam forming and high temprature natural gas (methane), this process will be completely obsolete by 2042. One the most up and coming methods uses solar energy to break down hydrogen and oxygen, similar to evaporation, and harvesting this; this process is new but very effiecent and will probably grow to be the number one way of harvesting hydrogen. So that's where hydrogen comes from.

[bellcanada420]

I think the oil crysis is merely a means of driving forward an american agenda for global domination!

the truth tastes bitter doesnt it!

[Sensational]

Originally Posted by bellcanada420

I think the oil crysis is merely a means of driving forward an american agenda for global domination!

Lawl.
.

[KILLERCOD]

Well...I commute 30 miles a day roundtrip...ain't gonna happen on a bike!

It would be nice if we were like Europe, with thier bike friendly roads and public transit systems...but then again Europe will fit into the land mass of the USA about 2-3 times...anyone in Europe commute 30-50 miles roundtrip every day by automobile?

We don't have public transportation where I live (semi-rural southeast), and some people can't afford 25K for a new Prius...either that or the credit monster will charge them 22% interest because their beacon score is not 800 in these unsure economic times. They have to make due with thier 10 year old gas guzzler which is killing them and the economy at $4+ a gallon for gas.

Peace, love, and hair grease! Lets make the world green again, conserve, make new technology..etc...but let's make it available and affordable to EVERYONE...(nah, can't do that...capitalism RULEZ!).

Wish I had an answer, but I do like the idea of more nuclear power and more US oil resources being used...and less reliance on OPEC...