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  #1  
Old 05-14-2009, 10:04 AM
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ROM Blasphemy! Emulated games are lies.
I don't want this to turn into a ROM or emulator discussion. I don't want to know how many ROMs you've downloaded, which emulator you use, or how many original games and game consoles you own or collect.

While I have been known to play ROM files in the past, nothing pisses me off more than casual gamers who claim to own thousands and thousands of NES, SNES, Sega Genesis, or Atari games and resort to boasting about it. Downloading and saving ROM files is no where near as challenging as surfing ebay, visiting your local pawn or hawk shops, and dropping down cold, hard cash for game consoles, accessories, and games.

Now, another subject. You just bought a Wii, got it hooked up wirelessly, and just found a ton of classic games availiable online. You just bought and downloaded a copy of Super Mario Bros. 1. You own it now, right? Not in my opinion. Why? You didn't go through the same mental anguish to find a copy of the game in mint cartridge condition. Hell, you may not even own an NES. Half of game collecting is the persuit of actually finding the game for purchase. Looking it up online, whether legal or not, is not trully collecting and owning the game in my opinion.

Remakes and emulated titles reduce the value of original games in any condition. It happened with Chrono Trigger once Final Fantasy Chronicals was released for Playstation. It'll happen with every classic NES game featured for download on the Wii. It's unfair to collectors and too damn easy for gaming mainstreamers.

Unfortunately, it's a must in todays day and age. Mainstream gamers would rather let classic titles die in obscurity than purchase second-hand game hardware and search for original game titles. If classic games weren't availiable for download via the Wii, the few retro gamers left wouldn't have anyone to talk to.
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:09 PM
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Yeah, but where can I get my hands on a good old Star Castle Machine, Defender, Tempest, Asteroids, Space Wars, Donky Kong, Lunar Lander, Night Driver, Pac Man, Mrs Pacman, Dig Dug, etc... and after i spend this fortune on all these great original hardware machines, and learned how to repair them of course, where am I going to sleep, or for that matter stand to play them?
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:51 PM
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Lol, this is such a no subject. Who the heck is going to spend all their time and money hunting down old games and hardware so they can realize 10 minutes into Donkey Kong they'd rather be playing Fallout 3, Bioshock, MGS4, Medieval 2 TW, Dawn of War ... ... ?

Ya, it's nice to fire up a classic sometimes, and having the option to download one to my Wii or install FireNES on my browser to handle those cravings is great. But getting all fanboyish about classic games is just that, fanboyish. No one other than hardcore collectors are going to go out of there way to hunt down ancient consoles and cartridges to satisfy a craving.

Ya some games you collected may be losing value but the hardware shouldn't be. As far as I'm concerned the only people interested in that stuff are collectors anyways. So the fact that anyone can download Super Mario Bros. really isn't affecting your hardware's value.

And like any investment there is risk involved. You are choosing to invest in old gaming consoles and sound like you are hoping to profit from it. Welcome to life. You win some, you lose some. Try something like real estate or stocks if you want to make money.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraLane View Post
Yeah, but where can I get my hands on a good old Star Castle Machine, Defender, Tempest, Asteroids, Space Wars, Donky Kong, Lunar Lander, Night Driver, Pac Man, Mrs Pacman, Dig Dug, etc... and after i spend this fortune on all these great original hardware machines, and learned how to repair them of course, where am I going to sleep, or for that matter stand to play them?
Right. Good counter-argument. What about all the people who really love arcade machines and don't want to have to take a cut in graphics or control just to have to play a dumbed down version on an archaic home console? I guess in that instance, MAME it up.

Finding original arcade cabinets and classic games is far more challenging than walking down to a pawn shop. Console games collectors like me purchase for $20 to $200 are nothing when compared to purchases of arcade cabinets. MAME ROMs are just as illegal as home console ROMs, but unless you're a millionaire who likes throwing cash at near pointlessness, it's the only way.

On the flip side of that coin, what about really rare and really old home game consoles like the Fairchild Channel F, the Colecovision, the Vectrex, and so on? Older, rare consoles are the pride and joy of any collector's collection. These game consoles are rare, and many of them aren't in working condition any longer. Does that mean emulate? I have a split opinion on the topic, but I usually go by a rule. "Five to Twenty". If the game or game console in question is twenty years old or more, emulate away. If it's 15 years old or less, don't touch it. That five year grey area depends on the console and game in question.

It is not impossible to find old game consoles at pawn shops, second-hand stores, or through friends. Sure, you're going to have a harder time finding a Turbo Duo than you would a Nintendo 64. That doesn't mean you should say to hell with the search and hit up utorrent.

If all else fails, "Beat it, then delete it"! If you've scoured your local hawk or pawn shops, the thrift stores, your friends, and ebay and you STILL can't find what you're looking for, then do what you have to.

My point remains, though. If you've resorted to playing ROMs because you can't find said game, console, or arcade cabinette, or you simply can't afford them, downloading ROMs is an alternative. Just don't run about on the interwebs telling fellow gamers you have an Atari 2600 and a copy of Centepede when you simply emulate. It's like an e-slap-in-the-face.

So, remember. Beat it, then delete it and you'll get five to twenty. lol.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Thund3rball View Post
Lol, this is such a no subject. Who the heck is going to spend all their time and money hunting down old games and hardware so they can realize 10 minutes into Donkey Kong they'd rather be playing Fallout 3, Bioshock, MGS4, Medieval 2 TW, Dawn of War ... ... ?

Ya, it's nice to fire up a classic sometimes, and having the option to download one to my Wii or install FireNES on my browser to handle those cravings is great. But getting all fanboyish about classic games is just that, fanboyish. No one other than hardcore collectors are going to go out of there way to hunt down ancient consoles and cartridges to satisfy a craving.

Ya some games you collected may be losing value but the hardware shouldn't be. As far as I'm concerned the only people interested in that stuff are collectors anyways. So the fact that anyone can download Super Mario Bros. really isn't affecting your hardware's value.

And like any investment there is risk involved. You are choosing to invest in old gaming consoles and sound like you are hoping to profit from it. Welcome to life. You win some, you lose some. Try something like real estate or stocks if you want to make money.
Honestly, I don't feel that strongly about the subject in either regard. Sure, it could be said that I'm a little butthurt that my console and game collection has been losing value over the past 10 years, but that's my own issue. I really just wanted opinion and feedback.

I think it's odd that you assume most around here would rather play games like Fallout 3, Bioshock, and MGS4 than Super Mario World, Final Fantasy 6, or Contra. I wouldn't call retro gaming a craving. I'd call nostalgia gaming a craving. Retro gamers are people who actually prefer 2D to 3D or simplicity over complexity and realisim.

I never attempted driving the point that ROMs are illegal and should not be used in any condition. If you want to play Super Mario Bros. 3 and it's the only game on NES you'd ever want to play, then obviously, I wouldn't suggest buying an NES. That'd be a severe waste of money.

I simply think it's wrong to download a ROM version game then claim to "own" it, adding it to a collection of current-gen or other actual retro titles in cart or CD form. It's stupid. It's like robbing a liquor store and throwing an immense party afterward, or if you want to get literal, it'd be like downloading a copy of Photoshop CS4 from utorrent, then posting to a personal site that you now own a copy of Photoshop CS4.

Obviously, it's not like there are ROM police out on the internet just waiting for little Jimmy to download a SNES emulator and ROM set, but if little Jimmy is willing to go to those lengths, why not just keep his mouth shut about it afterward?

It'd be a rare situation, but blabbing about it afterward may piss off the wrong people. The people who actually did spend hard earned money on retro consoles and games. Perhaps not for the same game Jimmy downloaded, but if Jimmy were to invite his friend Bimmy over, and Bimmy found out Jimmy downloaded a copy of Super Mario Bros. 3 that Bimmy had just throw down $15.00 on at the local pawn shop, Bimmy might be a little upset. So much so, that Bimmy might tell a few other people... then the only thing keeping little Jimmy from getting caught is motivation.

It's still less than likely little Jimmy's going to get caught, but he did piss off Bimmy in the process... and what's Double Dragon 3 without Jimmy and Bimmy as a team? Single Dragon 3. That game would kinda suck.
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Old 05-16-2009, 05:48 PM
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I'm actually not a ROM person either. I have a couple retro games I acquired legally, on my new Nintendo hardware, that's about it. I played many of those games back in the day when they were the newer games. I guess I overlooked that there are some people out there that might prefer the classics to the newer 3D games, but most casual players I think just play whatever few titles they enjoy and that's it. Whether they are newer games or classics.

Do people get pissed about pirates, I suppose. I used to but I am not going to do anything to stop piracy. All I can do is be the good citizen and pay for what I want. It's also worth noting that studies are now being down about pirates. I know music is different than software but it is showing that music pirates are actually much more likely to be the ones who actually buy the music than non-pirates. They use it as a "try before you buy" service and are the biggest music fans and consumers. Go figure? The same might be able to be said about game pirates?
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Old 05-16-2009, 09:04 PM
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The reason it works with music pirates is because the quality is usually much lower on the pirated versions. They download the music, decide to like it, then go buy it at CD quality.

This isn't true with games. The quality of a pirated game is no different from the quality of a legal copy, unless there's some sort of glitch in the pirate copy.
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimfusion View Post
Honestly, I don't feel that strongly about the subject in either regard. Sure, it could be said that I'm a little butthurt that my console and game collection has been losing value over the past 10 years, but that's my own issue. I really just wanted opinion and feedback.
No, you didn't. You just wanted to whine, and in the process make yourself feel better than others just because we refuse to go antiquing when better working, cleaner versions of the same game are easier to obtain.

Remember, "Whaaah! CDs are ruining Vinyl!" and "Whaaah! MP3s are ruining CDs!"?

Yeah.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LordXenophon View Post
The reason it works with music pirates is because the quality is usually much lower on the pirated versions. They download the music, decide to like it, then go buy it at CD quality.

This isn't true with games. The quality of a pirated game is no different from the quality of a legal copy, unless there's some sort of glitch in the pirate copy.
That's a load of BS. The range of audio quality on pirated music can be anywhere from disastrous to completely and entirely lossless. There are quite a few - probably more than you really realize - people who only pirate their music because that's the best way to get the absolute best audio quality, apart from having the raw audio files from the studio.

Not only this, but quite a few "release groups" specialize in ripping games - that is, the process of removing any and all unneeded extras to minimize a game's file size. This can go so far as removing quite a few of the graphical effects, audio files, etc. And these releases can be pretty popular.


Anyways.

Owning a game = owning a game.
Owning a cartridge = owning a cartridge.
Owning a cartridge with a game's data on it = owning a cartridge with a game's data on it.
Owning a HDD with thousands of games on it = owning an HDD with thousands of games on it.

A video game is not its disc. It's not its packaging. It's not its cartridge. It's the data. It's the actual program so many people put so much of their time into.

Claiming otherwise is just wasted delusion.
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:52 AM
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No, you didn't. You just wanted to whine, and in the process make yourself feel better than others just because we refuse to go antiquing when better working, cleaner versions of the same game are easier to obtain.
While I enjoy your contribution to the topic, I think you may have incorrectly perceived the original post. I don't want people to start collecting consoles and video games and give up the use of ROMs and emulators.

I keep most of my classic game collection on ROM just in case I get the itch to play a certain game and my console ceases to function. I don't condone the use of ROMs, but why admit to wrongdoings over the internet?

I just don't like it when ROM downloaders claim to own the game, as if they had put in the time to search for it and buy it. The issue really was not supposed to turn into a conversation like this, but it has.

The basic issue is lying. It's despicable and dishonorable within the console community, and while there's no sure fire way to catch people on the site touting ROM lists, it might push the guilty into feeling a little worse about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocte View Post
Remember, "Whaaah! CDs are ruining Vinyl!" and "Whaaah! MP3s are ruining CDs!"?

Yeah.
MP3s kinda are ruining CDs in terms of general audio quality. Most MP3s availiable through P2P networks are admittedly lower quality.

Besides; now you're just being insulting and trying to insite flame.
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by grimfusion View Post
While I enjoy your contribution to the topic, I think you may have incorrectly perceived the original post. I don't want people to start collecting consoles and video games and give up the use of ROMs and emulators.

I keep most of my classic game collection on ROM just in case I get the itch to play a certain game and my console ceases to function. I don't condone the use of ROMs, but why admit to wrongdoings over the internet?

I just don't like it when ROM downloaders claim to own the game, as if they had put in the time to search for it and buy it. The issue really was not supposed to turn into a conversation like this, but it has.

The basic issue is lying. It's despicable and dishonorable within the console community, and while there's no sure fire way to catch people on the site touting ROM lists, it might push the guilty into feeling a little worse about it.



MP3s kinda are ruining CDs in terms of general audio quality. Most MP3s availiable through P2P networks are admittedly lower quality.

Besides; now you're just being insulting and trying to insite flame.
Not trying to do anything. Guess I'm just a little more aggressive than is typical.

MP3s aren't ruining CDs in terms of general audio quality. CDs will always have the same quality, and no amount of crappy MP3s will change that.

However, MP3s have been a godsend in terms of actual sound quality - you can now get MP3s with much better audio quality on them, and because of digital music lossless recordings of become widely available. Thus, much better audio.

You seem to have interpreted my original statement, though. Owning a ROM is owning the game - it's the exact same data you would get on the cartridge. Sans the cartridge, your collection is no different than anyone else's - you've only managed to waste more space and (probably) collect more damaged games.

It's in no way dishonest. It's in no way lying. They have the game, just the same as you.

Really, I suppose, it's a moral decision to want to acquire the actual cartridge. Really, too, it all comes down to someone's perspective.
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