Challenge: Build a computer for under $1000

[ethereal-wolf]

Originally Posted by rabb1t

I looked into the NewEgg affiliate program, doesn't really help. I'd only get a small % of the purchase and, at the time I looked into it, of my like 150 links at the site to NewEgg only like 4 qualified for doing the program. It's not a simple thing of 'add xyz at the end of the link to identify said person came from my site'. It's some super complex annoying link that changes from month to month depending on which qualify and which don't. (So I'd have to filter through what did or did not qualify, change my site, and then it would obviously not be a normal link to anyone looking at it so I'd be worried they would then think it suspicious and that I was doing something funky to trick them in some way.)

But yeah, assuming just 10% of the peeps who are unique visitors spent $150 each, that's like $315,000 NewEgg is making off my peeps each year. (Though I think they make millions per month, so my peeps are likely a very small drop in the bucket.)

(Likely a conservative figure, as I know several have done full builds from my recommendations. I even recently saw someone reference they've done two of my builds, and I've only been recommending full builds for like 1.5 years.)

A part of me has always hoped that people at said manufacturers (Evga, BFG, etc.) would take notice and realize how much word of mouth I'm doing and send me a donation of a something. You know, sort of like a sponsorship in reverse. I know Nvidia knows about me, or did at one time. (I think over a year ago now.) They came over for an in-home study and we talked for a while and the head researcher was blown away by my site and how much I knew about their products. Nothing yet though.

I think at this point the only real way I'd get a commission, since I've gotten nothing from retailers or manufacturers in the 3.66 years I've had my site so far, would be if I got a business license and started offering build services. (Which I can't do without having an address to attach said license to and work from.)

something else to look into https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/
I buy alot of stuff off amazon. they carry computer hardware too.

[rabb1t]

Ya have to be super careful with Amazon hardware purchases though. Due to the nature of their site the prices can fluctuate quite a bit. (In a bad way if you aren't careful.)

Their policy looks pretty much the same as NewEgg. I know it's a subtle difference between having links and having obvious 'I'm an affiliate things' I'd like to avoid the perception that I'm aligned to any one specific place or vendor. I know my site is very heavily slanted towards NewEgg and Nvidia (specifically Evga), but I could break away from that at any time.

I know you are trying to help, but I want to stay away from any kind of 'rabb1t is bias because of x banner or ad' perceptions. From what I peeped so far, I wouldn't gain anything near enough in kickback to be worth the scared perception.

[KaimerasPain]

Rabb1t,

Im doing a rebuild on one of my older systems cause its on a 939; and its AMD and I wanna jump over to a Core i7. I already have a 750W power supply, 2 500G Sata drives, an Antec P180 case, and an All in Wonder 1800 XL. Not sure the All in wonder 1800 XL is worth keeping, but heres the breakdown of the added parts I think i wanna go with. I need an opinion:

Intel Core i7 920
Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R
GTX 285, Evga Superclocked <== if the 1800 isnt worth keeping
OCZ Core i7 version - OCZ3X1600LV6GK

Another option on the graphics is two:
EVGA 896-P3-1260-TR GeForce GTX 260 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

which is technically cheaper, but I would want an opinion on this as well.

This looks to be about a grand, but since I have the other parts already it doesnt really bother me. Whats ur opinion on the modifications?


Oh, and man, mad props on that site.... I read tons of info on it for a long time puttin stuff together and modifying different options.

Kaimera-

[koji042]

I'm not rabb1t, but I think you should probably go for the new graphics card.
The 1800XL is pretty old, so you'd get much more performance from a new card. Even if you don't play PC games too often, having a better card is good for those times a new game comes out for the PC that you want to play. It's amazing how fast the world of computers advances in just a few years.

But getting an i7? I'm jealous. D:
Still love my Core 2 Duo though.

EDIT: What version of Windows will you be using on the machine? 64-bit is a must for you.

[rabb1t]

Originally Posted by KaimerasPain

Rabb1t

How odd. I somehow missed this post in an earlier sweep.

Im doing a rebuild on one of my older systems cause its on a 939; and its AMD and I wanna jump over to a Core i7.

That's a pretty massive leap, but the Core i7 stuff is getting down into teh cheap (for quad core), so nowish is a good time to consider it.

Note that ram will be getting even cheaper soon, as they are pressing into 45nm production. (But I don't think those will be out and prices will drop until closer to the end of the year. I think that production is slated for around Summer.)

Not sure the All in wonder 1800 XL is worth keeping

With a Core i7 that's crazy talk. That would be like asking if you should buy a Ferrari and not ever drive above 30 MPH to get anywhere.

Note that with a GTX 285 you would be into the range of overkill on anything less than a 1920x1200 screen. A GTX 260 Core 216 would be 'enough' power.

Another option on the graphics is two:
EVGA 896-P3-1260-TR GeForce GTX 260 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

Not actually a good choice. That's the older GTX 260, the one that has less shaders and older dye size. The single GTX 285 would be way better.

Whats ur opinion on the modifications?

That's the snap answers, in a rush at the moment.

Oh, and man, mad props on that site.... I read tons of info on it for a long time puttin stuff together and modifying different options.

[KaimerasPain]

Originally Posted by rabb1t

With a Core i7 that's crazy talk. That would be like asking if you should buy a Ferrari and not ever drive above 30 MPH to get anywhere.

HAHAHA thats a good one, I figured as much although the card has preformed really well over its lifespan! I still can boost most stuff I mess with all the way up to the highest lvls, but then again, I dont really play crysis or any of those real intensive games.

Well, I guess i'll look into the 285, although i keep getting mixed opinions that I dont need that much juice. Anything u would suggest that falls in the lower price range yet still has some push? Lemme know! Ur awesome!

Kaimera-

[rabb1t]

Originally Posted by KaimerasPain

HAHAHA thats a good one, I figured as much although the card has preformed really well over its lifespan!

Well, it's not just about the card. It's about spending x total and looking at your strengths and weaknesses overall.

Scenario A:
Core i7 920 - $289
Gigabyte MB - $195
OCZ 6 gig DDR3 - $125
GPU x1800 - $0
Total = $ 609

vs.

Scenario B:
Core 2 Duo E8400 or Q8200 - $165
Evga 780i FTW - $170
OCZ 4 gig DDR2 - $32
GPU GTX 285 - $335
Total = $ 702

Somewhat close in cost, yet I can guarantee you that you'd see much much higher FPS with Scenario B. Why? That Core i7 does zip for gaming framerates over an E8400 at real resolutions. (example) That GPU difference, however, is huge.

That being said, that may not be the best blend of uber tech and how you are spending your monies, as quad core and DDR3 will be of greater advantage in the coming years. We can shave off a bit here and there without too many sacrifices.

Core i7 920 $289
Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R $195
OCZ 3 gig DDR3 $60
Evga GTX 260 Core 216 55nm, Superclocked $220

Total = $ 764

This would get you the best mix of new tech and more powerful graphics. You could, of course, also pull over your x1800 and upgrade to the GTX 260 Core 216 at a later time if you want. Note though that as long as you hold on to that x1800 you won't be able to run in DX10.

Note that on Tom's most recent chart the x1800s are in the 12th rank and down, while the GTX 260 Core 216 is in the 4th rank, and the GTX 285 in the 3rd.

Again, a GTX 260 Core 216 should have plenty of power to run at even 1920x1200, so if you are going to now tell us that you are running at 1280x1024, then again I have to tell ya that looking at a Core i7 might be a bad idea compared to upgrading more items.

I still can boost most stuff I mess with all the way up to the highest lvls, but then again, I dont really play crysis or any of those real intensive games.

Then what I'd say is go with my above recommended option (even bounce back up to 6 gig) and hold your x1800, but plan to upgrade it ASAP.

But again remember, that Core i7 will not net you any more frames than something like an E8400. You are paying just short of double for the CPU and gaining effectively zero FPS for doing so. Now non-gaming, there you'd see a big difference.

Well, I guess i'll look into the 285, although i keep getting mixed opinions that I dont need that much juice. Anything u would suggest

It's tough to say if it is or is not since I don't know what resolution you are running and what games you are playing.

At 2560x1600 even something like WoW would want a GTX 285 to 'be sure'. But if you are at something like 1680x1050, then no, you don't need a GTX 285, a GTX 260 Core 216 is plenty of power, and it is very likely the new GTX 250 (a re-designed 9800 GTX+, set to launch on the 10th at ~$150 for the stock 1 gig version) would be enough power if you are willing to sacrifice some settings in the more intense games. Something like WoW you should have NP maxing or getting very near to max with even a GTX 250 at 1680x1050.

Anything u would suggest that falls in the lower price range yet still has some push?

I'd say unless you are running at 2560x1600 you can easily drop down to a GTX 260 Core 216 (linked above is the Superclocked 55nm version. Only Evga and Asus have 55nm versions for some reason.)

I'd totally recommend a Core i7 with a new build for longevity reasons, also you have the potential to dual/tri/quad Nvidia or ATi cards, allowing you to flip if you have the monies. You already have the 2 slot board for teh cheap, so that's already shaved, but you can also consider going with just 3 gig for now and picking up 3 more later, or doing something like going straight to 12 gig once the new 45nm rams for teh cheap come out.

I would recommend considering Nvidia though for the hidden advantage of PhysX.

Of course, if you also need to upgrade the monitor, you can go Nvidia and 3D Vision for teh lolz. (Of course, you wouldn't want to even consider this if you are looking to shave off costs, hehe. )

Ur awesome!

Yeaaa for helpful bunnies!

My bad for not seeing the posting earlier. Not sure why I missed it. I peeped the site like 3x yesterday.

[KaimerasPain]

K, with the 1800 XL im running a NEC LCD1970NX BK1 at 1280 x 1024.

Basically, Im running games like Oblivion, WoW, Perfect World International, and so on. I am looking for the best processor bang for the buck, and video bang for the buck for these games. It isnt like money is a real big deal; i figured that $1000 for a mobo, vid card, proc, and ram was plenty. I'm really just trying to get a gaming system that will push me through the next couple yrs, cause I dont update that often, so... whatever you feel kinda fits that catagory would interest me.

I have a case (antec P180), the power supply (750W) and 2 500Gb Sata drives, so I really only need the 4 main parts; just not sure what the best combos are- tanks for ze input!

Kaimera-

[rabb1t]

Originally Posted by KaimerasPain

at 1280 x 1024

*wince* How did I know you were gonna say something like that.

It's really up to you what to do with yer monies. I don't know what kind of res or settings will make you happy, but again, the Core i7 is quite a long ways from "bang for the buck". Yes, it's more powerful than the Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quads for non-gaming, and the architecture has a few advantages, but again, for gaming it has zero gain, so you are dumping money somewhere that it won't benefit you.

Just to review and cut it down...

Scenario A:
Core i7 920 - $289
Gigabyte MB - $195
OCZ 6 gig DDR3 - $125
Total = $ 609

vs.

Scenario B:
Core 2 Duo E8400 - $165
Evga 780i FTW - $170
OCZ 4 gig DDR2 - $32
Total = $ 367

Note that when we remove graphics, just to see the difference in cost in the CPU, MB, and Ram, you can see going with a Core i7 is a huge price increase for which you will be gaining effectively zero FPS.

If you want the absolute most for your money, and you are targeting a core change within 2 years, I'd recommend that you maybe hold off on the Core i7. As above, that difference can be huge if you are talking about something like a $1k total limit and you should upgrade other parts that you may be ignoring.

For the absolute best "bang for the buck" for you I'd be more likely to recommend something like the following...

E8400 $165
OCZ 4 gig DDR2 800 $32 post rebate x2 for 8 gig (you must have a 64-bit OS to use 8 gig)
Evga 780i FTW $170
Evga GTX 260 Core 216 55nm Superclocked $220

Total = $ 619

Acer X223Wbd 22" 1680x1050, $170
or
Acer X233Hbid 23" 1920x1080, $210

Total = $ 829 (assuming the X233Hbid)

+ Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit (as long as you get the free upgrade to Windows 7, if not hold out for Win 7) $100

Total = $ 929

I am looking for the best processor bang for the buck

Again, the Core i7 is a huge price hike for effectively zero gain in gaming right now. Games just don't use multicore effectively and likely won't until after Win 7 launches and the games are better optimized for multi-threading. We are still potentially looking at a few years before we really see a big gain there.

Now, if you are doing video encoding, or music, or working with large compiling projects, sure, you'd want the Core i7. If you are just looking at gaming, you absolutely aren't getting your money worth compared to the much less expensive E8400, E8500 or Q8200. (Higher quads like the Q9400 aren't worth it, as at that point you are matching Core i7 costs.)

and video bang for the buck for these games

Those are kind of older / less demanding things, so sticking with the x1800 for teh free may be the biggest "bang for the buck" as you are spending zero to get that performance. However, if you want more enjoyment, you'd be far better served by bumping up to 1680x1050, 1920x1080, or 1920x1200 and upgrading the graphics card. Note that the 1920x1080 screen will take nearly the same amount of power as 1920x1200, but they can be found for a bit cheaper. (The 24" Acer 1920x1200 is about $270 if I recall.) Note that if you do go into the 1920xX range you'll need to upgrade your graphics more often in order to keep up with the newer effects in games.

At 1680x1050 I'm sure a GTX 260 Core 216, or even a GTX 250, should be just fine. You should also likely manage one of the 1920xX settings, but you may need to turn a few things down a bit as time goes on.

IMO for that 1k cap, you'd get far more enjoyment out of a CPU step that isn't overkill and upgrading the graphics and monitor. Trust me, you've been at a lower res so long you don't know what you are missing.

You may want to find a way to take a look. This shot shows you what you are missing with a 1280x1024 square set inside a 1680x1050 picture. You can also peep some screen shots; WoW shots, Age of Conan shots, older Oblivion shots.

I don't mean to sound obsessive or anything, but taking a Core i7 over a Core 2 Duo and ignoring graphics and monitor when you want the most game enjoyment... it's crazy talk.

It isnt like money is a real big deal; i figured that $1000 for a mobo, vid card, proc, and ram was plenty.

Normally it is, but if you are looking at the Core i7 it is still a bit in the bleeding edge, as ram costs and motherboard costs can make a pretty big difference. Again, if you look at above and ignore the graphics card change, that's a big difference between the Core i7 bits and the Core 2 Duo bits which will give you effectively identical gaming framerates.

If you have the wiggle room then the Core i7 is the better long term deal. If you don't mind changing again in a few years, then you can save a lot and get nearly identical performance for a fair bit less.

I'm really just trying to get a gaming system that will push me through the next couple yrs, cause I dont update that often

That's a contradiction in terms there. "Every couple" means 2. Upgrading every other year is upgrading "frequently". Mainstream people don't upgrade more often than about every 4 or 5 years.

(Though this isn't necessary, you can peep my article on "Riding the Wave (of Technology) vs. Leaping" and peep some of my lifespan references on the PC page, for more on that.)

so... whatever you feel kinda fits that catagory would interest me.

It's totally up to you. You can go with the Core i7 920 with 6 gig of OCZ and the Giga board for teh cheap, but realize it will give you zero FPS gain over an E8400 on a 780i board with 4 gig of DDR2. You are effectively paying double for features that you aren't going to tap into for possibly a few years.

My advice - if it's the choice of the E8400 build and graphics card and new monitor vs. just the Core i7 and sticking with the x1800 and 1280x1024 res, you would be getting a vastly better deal by going with the E8400, GPU, and monitor, and upgrading your total experience. IMO upgrading for future potential you will piece together over the next year or more isn't as good as getting that gaming goodness now and upgrading to the better performing quad cores once they really come into use (for gaming).

[KaimerasPain]

OK rabb1t. I wont pester ya anymore on this! THANKS a ton for the info. Im going to look into these parts tonight and make a "now educated" decission on the matter. I really liked my monitor too- it really looks good. Didnt think that it was slowing be down any. lol I'll let ya know what I go with once I look over all the parts and $$.

Thanks again! U, as always, ROCK!

Kaimera-