Playing fairly vs. Playing to Win

[MRXBOXnVANBC]

Originally Posted by Batgra

Okay, you missed the entire point and posted something totally irrelevant, that has nothing to do with what you quoted.

Yes people can take advantage of glitches, you didn't need to post an example. Its an unfortunate fact, that games have bugs, and when people discover them they take advantage.

The point was, Bugs are not intentionally included in a game so people will stop playing, and move on to the next "better game" - that kind of thinking is just moronic and overly cynical.

You might ask yourself how i played this game 2000 hrs , jumping in & out of games and never noticed my score double ? But hey your right . I would hate to believe that they would do this !

[VENOM-OF-SINS]

I think a good rule of thumb for playing fair is honor.

While spawn camping can be seen by many as being unfaire, it's also pretty faire in a sense. Two teams meet up in the center of a chosen map to make their stance and push forward with their goal. Team 1 happens to have an undiscovered edge on skill, which might take a toll on Team 2's number of casualties. With Team 2 having more casualties, more time is spent moving to and reinforcing the frontlines. While this time is being wasted, Team 1 will take advantage and move up its frontlines, slowly pushing Team 2 back to its spawn point. In a way, both Teams deserve their position on the map. Team 1 fought hard for it, and Team 2 didn't try hard enough.

In the end, gamers have to ask themselves if what's being done is honorable. Squashing a bug and wrestling a lion aren't quite the same. Brag about squashing a bug and people might laugh at you. Brag about wrestling a lion and people will respect you. It's not the numbers that will make you, it's the image and thought that do.

Honor should be the rule of engagement...

[Imran]

I play to win - pure and simple.

The problem is, I don't win that often

[VENOM-OF-SINS]

Does that mean that you don't play then?

[Skyles]

A LONG time ago, when I played metal knights, I added a page on my metal knights website that addressed the subject of gamesmanship for people joining my clan or studying my gameplay tips content. I discussed gaming behavior and broke down certain activities into "Acceptable", "Crude" and "Cheating" categories.

Note: The result was an small uproar on the mk forums and a ton of hate email from players that thought I had no right to be making ethical judgments concerning player behavior, much less post those judgments to a web page. Plenty of folks sent supporting comments too, including the game designer - but I learned the hard way that people who employ crude tactics whenever they can self-justify the behavior tend to attack with venom when called on those actions.

Keep in mind that Metal Knights was a relatively small community of gamers where a person could get to know people and earn a reputation - most modern games are a lot more anonymous in nature, due to the number of opponents you encounter if nothing else. Here are some excerpts:

One of the subjects that comes up again and again among the players ... is cheating and fair play. The good news is that most of the truly destructive possibilities have been written out by the game designers. The bad news is that there will always be those players who don't think before acting, or who don't know or care about the rules of courteous game play.

All that we can do is try to make people think, and educate people, in an effort to create a stronger community where everyone can enjoy the game. I'm sure there will never be a 100% consensus, but I do invite commentary. That said, here is my attempt at quantifying some general and specific rules of gamesmanship in MetalKnights...

The simplest rule of thumb ... is this; "Give people the opportunity to enjoy themselves, give them a fair chance." If people don't enjoy playing against you, you will find it difficult to find good opponents, and you will soon stop having fun.

It is in the implementation of this general rule that things get complicated.

A totally fair player ... never surprises and never takes advantage of other players in any way.

At the other end of the spectrum is the player who believes that he is playing at war. That in war anything goes and he need not consider the effect his play has on other people. Anything that gains this player an advantage is a good tactic in his eyes.

Most of us lie somewhere in between. Few of us can play the game without taking some sort of occasional unfair advantage. Most of us will use strategies that are not absolutely fair to others, and have them used on us. It is integral to the very nature of a war game. The MK community is a good one, but never expect the other players to be nice to you all the time. Everyone wants to win, and while most will try to be as fair as possible, everyone will take actions and carry out strategies that will gain them an advantage. On the other hand, most of us realize that this is a game, and rules of courteous game play govern. At its simplest, we know that we should give those others who have chosen to play a chance to play the game.

As game players, communicating and existing within a community where we build a personal reputation, we are called upon to take a little more social responsibility than that required of modern generals. We are called upon to develop and maintain an older style of warfare, that of the Gentleman's War. When gentlemen go to war, they play according to rules, occasionally giving up the tactical advantage in the name of fair play. It is the warfare of community, where you know the people on the other side by name and face, where they are only your opponents, not your enemy, and where those opponents might someday be your allies. In such an environment, it behooves the general to play his game courteously and with all consideration.

Categorizing Behavior:

We need to start by differentiating the concepts of unfair strategies and cheating. Many people use the term 'cheating' too lightly, referring to various strategies, both fair and unfair. Cheating is the abuse of errors in or modification and of the game code. The rest are all tactical applications, whether performed solely within the game or arranged between two or more players outside of the game.

Accepted Tactics:

These tactics and events are common and accepted parts of the ... game. Expect them, get used to them, and plan for them. They are accepted because, while they often (but not always) gain the person who uses them a serious tactical advantage over opponents, they don't destroy the game experience itself. Others are here because, while they do dampen the game experience a bit, they don't gain much (or any) tactical advantage.


Crude (Dishonorable/Unsportsmanlike) Tactics:

Crude tactics are those that destroy the game experience for another person. They are simply so incredibly unfair as to remove any possible enjoyment another player has in the game. Again, in a community of people who you know and communicate with, as opposed to a modern faceless war setting, it is always in your best interest to play a gentleman's war. These tactics remove any chance of a fair game, and are worthy of derision and hostility.

These are effective tactics, if performed correctly, but they offend and frustrate and make enemies. Use them at your own risk, and as the old saying goes "If you make yourself an ass, don't be surprised if people ride you". People will respond with equally crude tactics, in that game and in the future.

We're all here to have some fun. Most of us can handle losing. But few of us can handle never getting to play at all. Tactics that completely destroy a person's ability to play the game always fall under the crude category; even using illegal mods/using cheats gives people an opportunity to play, albeit a completely unfair one.


Cheating:

Glitching: Discovering and taking advantage of game glitches; failing to report those glitches to the game designers for your own benefit.

Programing: Altering or using a cheat program to alter the game in any manner not cosmetic in nature.

Serverkills: Accepting surrenders that are caused by a server collapse before the players who missed those turn have a reasonable period of time to return to the game. Wins gained in this manner are in no-way earned.

Tinman: Regularly surrendering to yourself, an ally, or friend in order to help that person.

Reactions

Plan for these actions, prepare for them. If they are played against you, accept them and move on.

The best response to this kind of activity is to deprive this person of any possible reward for these actions, or any advantage if successful. Play so hard that the person will also lose the game; arrange a surrender with another player to deprive this rude individual of the kill points; sabotage your holdings so that the player will get nothing but the smallest possible group of low-populated starving cities. The only way to stop people from doing this kind of thing to you is to make them understand that they will be treated as unfairly as they treat others, and that they will gain absolutely no benefit from it once you recognize what they are doing.

PLAY WELL!

[VENOM-OF-SINS]

In modern day war, we have rules set by the Geneva Conventions and Protocols, as well as the Hague Conventions. These rules for example do not permit the use of chemical or biological weapons, and a certain treatment of civilians and prisoners of war is expected. However, not everyone follows them and they'll do whatever they can to get the upper hand. Everyone is worried about the next person playing an unfair game. In order to compete, some may feel they would have to join in the unfaireness.

I think a good example would be Guantanamo Bay and it's controversial method of interogation.

Life isn't faire, and it's your breaking point that distinguishes you from the others.

[kolja86]

I play for fun, pure fun, nothing but fun and fun only... I don't care about winning... because winning is NOT what games are all about... especially MMOs...

[Tsigeyusv]

While I can see the underhandedness of watching clan-mates while undercover, it does allow one to see how your players are with others, in both good and bad ways. Yes, I think you can play fairly AND play to win, both at the same time. Personally, I like the games that make the spawn areas no-kill zones for a few seconds after you re-spawn there. Getting your kills from camping a zone spot really is a cheap way to rack up points. If one were playing a *real* battle, there are no spawn points, so don't use 'em. They aren't part of the larger picture of the game.
Playing 3 vs 2 should also be a special set of considerations. Yes, given one team had the number advantage, they shouldn't have boobytrapped the ammo points. That isn't fair in the spirit of gaming. Certainly in a real war, you use every advantage one can gain, but this isn't real war, it's gaming. Showing sportsman-like behaviour will only add to your clan's reputation, and possibly gain you more members. Heck, if its all about server points, what's to keep a person from having grandma, who is visiting for the holidays, sit on a server with you, so you can pop her as soon as she spawns over and over again. You'd gain server points just fine. It's also not breaking any game rules. It's also not sportsman-like, or done with good intentions. The points aren't earned but they are gained. There is a big difference in my book. You don't always do what is possible, you do what is right. That said, I'm the only person I have to sleep with at night and I like to sleep with a clear conscience.
Cheating, is of course, not okay. I'd drop anyone caught cheating. I'd also drop anyone not being a good sport, too, but then that is why I'm not a clan leader, nor do I care much for clans in the first place.

[MRXBOXnVANBC]

As a Top player on Xbovlive , i am sick and tired of being asked if i want to join a booster party ! I went and counted why one of my fav stats had dropped 80 places in the last little while ! I counted from 1 to 169 ( my place ) and was surprised that 130 people had boosted past me . PLEASE game makers stop the touch the flag cheats ! THIS IS WHY THE ONLY GAME TO BE #1 AT IS TEAM BATTLE ! Stop all the other garbage that the cheats use to Ruin the leader boards , better yet get rid of the BOARDS ALL TOGETHER !!! Who am i to beef , i am MRXBOX n VAN BC , XBOXLIVES #1 PLAYER EVER !