In answer to you Hades, I do realize that the attention span of most gamers is that of a ADD crack head, on speed, after drinking 12 cans of Mt Dew and 2 pots of coffee. That and I am rather long winded without a doubt, which is usually a epic fail when trying to get my points heard.

Nice read Hades, although I feel you didn't really explain the true reasons for that mentality. Playing heroic characters, and becoming your own legend is heavily influenced by our culture and peoples need to feel more important then they do in real life. Many people with that mindset follow specific beliefs in real life that wash over into their gaming, not realizing that those states of mind which influence their choice in character or faction may not yield results given the real ideologies present in the game. These people lack a true perspective on the game they are playing and the dangers associated while playing in it. In my mind there are three aspects to what your talking about.

1. The players drive to excel in pve
2. The games influence on heroics
3. The players social and psychological mindset

For example, I've met and known several people who always play a paladin or priest, not only because they can be self sufficient and heal themselves, which grants them strength in pve, but also because these characters are group friendly and will likely mean that he/she will be able to max lvl out faster and be invited to raid, thereby gaining the best gear and completing the "epix" quests. That is how number one functions.

In aspect number two all things for a "Goodie" mind set start taking true form. In the example, this person starts believing that since the game is playing up the fact that he is a hero by giving him the "save the world" mentality he starts to think as such. The general belief that if he can vanquish pve foes with regularity and not take a scratch, destroying epic npcs, doing grand quests rewarded with the most noble of title and equipment that will mean his character can transition over to pvp without loss. Games in general, especially MMORPG's, have been or are starting to evolve into a individualistic style of play more so then a social communal style that they once were. This has created a selfish egotistical psychology with certain players that is more prevalent more so now then ever before in gaming.

Aspect three, the final frontier is the delusion of the player because of the game, but also because of his or her own personal beliefs. In the example the person I am specifically thinking about, although not the only example that may exist and certainly not the only belief that plays into this, is a strong Christian or at the very least wants to be a strong Christian. I hate to mix theology, and religion into gaming but as we all know certain ways of thinking drive everything we as humans do on a daily basis. I believe this is no different for gaming, and because of this need to fulfill some grand idea to vanquish all evil, whether those in our own thoughts and deeds, or those in a game still is important to note.

This player is living out his own selfish egotistical fantasy to rid the world of evil based on his need to make sense of his own beliefs and the overwhelming drive to feel important to not only himself but those around him as well.

Evil players do not share this thought process, we (as generally I play the underdog as well in a evil capacity) see it from a game structure point and theatrics. We don't buy into the games version of evil generally, nor do we do it all to "fit in" or "get along". We are mavericks, we are chaotic in our own dealings concerning the community, we generally gravitate toward those like minded, and form structure based on doing all that we envision to destroy or defame structure united against our own right to play as we want. While this seems very selfish as well, it is not when you consider that we do it all for the idea of creating conditions for a real story of epic proportions and uniting a community by galvanizing their resolve to fight in a epic mature manner. Generally, for my self anyways, we are lone players, on the outside of society, who don't have many friends who enjoy our gaming hobbies, or who don't know many people who game. We may belong to a evil guild but typically these evil guilds are elitist, membership is a hard earned privilege and may mean knowing certain people or having shown respect or skill to be considered.

Evil players know that game design often is against them, as their classes or builds are usually gimped or "refined" for balance purposes, but want something that will challenge them, and in the end something that will cater to their sense of style, embellishment, and drama. We want to be recognizable, for either in life or in a game we are not, we want to see others marvel at the fact that we can over come the incredible odds against us whether in game design or in social function and be as good or better then those who simply follow the herd and roll a healer.

We go into fighting situations most people would consider suicidal, but approach it with tact and reason, we analyze and prepare for conditions that have yet to be seen. We travel with our companions not just for security, but also for camaraderie and adventure. We listen to those more knowledgeable and experienced, we respect those of skill by following ranks because it's those individuals which will watch over you and protect you. It is a mutual respect that guides all of our actions. While we may all be individuals in these games, it is what lies at the core of each of us that makes being evil far more attractive in the long run which is the idea of respect or fellowship based on skill and knowledge.

The horde is not the Evil faction read your lore some time. We are the uglier faction yes. We have cows, trolls, orcs, rotting corpses, and gay ass little elves. Orcs were used as slaves originally. Trolls are a native deposed race, pushed out by Alliance factions. Tauren are also a native race and technically should have been neutral. The undead/scourge are victims but the humans looked upon them as a curse to be blighted out. Blood elves used to be alliance friendly, in other versions of warcraft. But thier love of/thirst for the arcane and dark magics made them outcasts. Technically if you want to think about it, we are all the evil side. We kill all the native inhabitants. The humanoid pig races, the humanoid rat races(no pun intended), the gnolls, the giants, the dragons, etc. And to say one thing about pvp, horde does pwn at things like AV. We gather together, work as a team, and normally if we lose the honor margin is very slim. Close to 50 honor points or so. And a lot of times when we win its by a margin of a couple of hundred honor or more earned. Accuracy by volume, send everything you have concentrated on a common goal and your bound to see it accomplished. Also the horde doesn't get very many afker's anymore, at least not in our battlegroup. They get reported so fast its not even funny.

Dang but I do hate agree with you on most of the well made points in that article.

Fact is people learn by osmosis. People see Heroes as a single entity whereas it takes numerous Villains to conquer said Hero. Even in their "groups" or "teams" they still hold true to their single identity ideal (a.k.a. the point of being a Hero).

People emulate this in games and are therefore more like-minded in the fact they know that sticking together will ultimately lead to success for Villains, whereas Heroes still hold the disposition that they should be able to conquer as single entities.

Also, the reason for using specific terms is called "writing to your audience." If you are talking to gamers you should have some inkling of what they accept as words, and Hades more mocks the words and uses them to prove his point.

First of all, when I PvP the only 'side' I take is my guild. Anyone outside of that is fair game for griefing, killing, etc.

Secondly, the collective pool that is WoW is filled with non-factors for which this was their first MMO. Blizzard set the game up for imbalance by placing all the 'pretty' races on one side until TBC. This offset the balance of younger gamers who'd prefer playing a hot elf than a hairy cow.

If you want to point a finger at 'epic failure', thank online gaming for going mainstream and pulling in casual trash at the same time.

Followup topic: Why Using Internet Meme Phrases Like "Epic Fail" = "Epic Fail".

All of you who think there is ANY wide spread difference in mentality of either faction in ANY game are fucking self righteous, irrellevant retards. Please take your subscription money, and buy yourselves a clue.

Hildace said it way more eloquently than me BTW.

in wow Yes the Alliance are the bad guys imo , but that dosent matter the whole mentality of the horde is about 10-15 years ahead of the alliance (mainly because the females didnt have as big of boobies or they where roting). i've played both sides to 70 and done my fair share of PvP on both and frankly the alliance makes me want to carve my eyes out with rusty blunt objects and then feed them to my dog. most of the time i just end up switching to my horde 70 and takeing out my frustrations with a nice chain of PvP wins on the Alliance

I've pvp-ed in mmos for years and I have always been on the 'goodie' side. I think that both sides have their share of uncoordinated players. In the games I have pvped in, the 'goodie' side could coordinate and did do well...so I am thinking that just from your experience you've noticed they are uncoordinated but your experience is not going to be the same experience as many others that play mmo's.
I like the challenge of fighting a lot of good teams on evil sides...although there are good teams on the 'goodie' side as well....
I've heard of a number of people that have a lot of experience playing on both sides and I always get told that the evil side pugs are just as uncoordinated as goodie side pugs. I just think you're exaggerating the difference between the sides. Btw, you dont need 13 years of experience to comment on this topic and you'd be foolish to think your 13 years somehow trumps the opinions of everyone else.

Hades clearly states the article is his subjective view of the good vs evil debate, and why LotD will be playing the evil side from now on. Read the articles description again.

His terms of "Good" drawing in more hero types is completely correct. Why do you play the "Good" side? To be a hero. To be recognized over all your peers, but on an MMOXXX it just doesn't happen because the first "hero" to run out is squashed by the rabble of villains.

LotD has always tried to stay true to their "Lawful Evil" position. Often though, the Evil side is so overpopulated or so "uber" that it makes for a poor experience. To rectify that they switch sides for a level of balance. The purpose of this article was to illustrate why, time after time, this has only ended in frustration and why they will not continue to stray in hopes of balance.

As I mentioned previously, I've got 13 years of playing on the evil side of gaming. Time after time the people and guilds who have played evil (or the aggressor faction when its not clear which side is evil per the game lore), have mostly been more organized and effective when it relates to PVP.

The goodies are historically unorganized, and often defeat themselves due to the things I outlined. That doesn't discount that there are some very good guilds on the "good" side, but most of the time they can't compensate for all the "hero" individuals who show up for PVP.

Armchair experts who don't have my depth and experience in MMORPG PVP can whine or gripe all they want because they will never understand. This article wasn't written for the armchair generals, but it was written for people who have a little more PVP experience as well as to people at certain levels of the gaming industry. It goes to show that developers can't code in some advantage to the good side to compensate for their historical lack of coordination. Instead I give them a preview of the behaviors that cause the good faction to self destruct, and hopefully they can find some answers somewhere.

I try to keep them short and to the point because no one likes reading novels anymore. If you want to read those, drop by the KAAOS website. The bottom line here is that more PVP games separate gamers into GOOD, Evil, or Neutral or Good and Evil only. There's a reason the evil side usually outnumbers the good side, and it boils down to the talking points in my article.

I've been a part of a few "good" side teams (in other games) that were infinitely more organized than the picture painted here illustrates. Just happens more often than not that "evil" side players learn quickly to group together and organize because of their hunted status. You can learn a great deal by simply observing your enemy.

Bottom line: Not impressed.

Yeah, this guy seemed a little self-righteous about his own preferred faction. It really doesn't matter lore wise at all where you are. It does, however, seem to me that a prevailing amount of people who are far more willing to work together roll horde than those who play alliance. Not saying this as an absolute, it just seems to be a the trend.

That aside, I'd have to agree with the first commenter, Giovanto. If one studied the bulk of Warcraft lore (yes, granted a lot of it has been changed, I still accept the current version), the horde side IS the "good" side. The Orcs were ripped from a shamanistic society into a bloodlust of war and violence by Mannorac's blood. And, on second thought, /steps down from soapbox. I think I'll stop there XD No need to get off topic with a lore summary.

That article was full of suck, and retardation. It's now more painfully obvious to me that you don't deserve your "legendary". Or whatever the hell it is The. title is undeserved. I'm proud of you for spamming a ton of gaming articles, and getting the scrubs that you take into your guild to sign up for GC.But you are a complete generalizing idiot. Get over yourself.

I'm not actually editing my grammar and spelling. Just pointing out that i'm aware of them. DIAF.

This article was golden.

I honestly think it has less to do with wich side is the good side lorewise, and more to do with the fact that you went good in WoW. Both sides in WoW are equally retarded.

What a bunch of crap, Evil Good? doesnt matter, its the players/Guilds that makes up who wins and who lose

There is no good or bad faction in WoW. Both sides are tainted. That, and some of us play for both teams. Before cross-server, it was pretty much half 'n half when I began playing, but suddenly people were complaining that Alliance always lost even though it wasn't true at the time. Eventually it turned into a self-fulfilling prophesy and Alliance did start losing all the time. Expectation is everything.

I hope your not referring to Horde...Alliance IS the evil faction. They did nothing but mistreat the Horde. We helped them fight off the burning legion, and we could have got along but nooooooooo, they decided to murder us anyway. So...the good faction is not epic fail, Horde FTW!